Wednesday, March 10, 2010

LOST Episode 6.07: "Dr. Linus" (Initial Thoughts & Theories)

"Corrupted from memory, no longer the power.
It's creeping up slowly, the last fatal hour.
I don't know what made me, what gave me the right
To mess with your values, and change wrong to right.
Please keep your distance - the trail leads to here.
There's blood on your fingers, brought on by fear.
I campaigned for nothing, I worked hard for this;
I tried to get to treat me like this.
It's just second nature, it's what we've been shown,
We're living by your RULES, that's all that we know."
- Candidate, Joy Division

Without a doubt, Dr. Linus is my favorite episode of Season 6 thus far. Some of my top Lost episodes of all time are from the latter half of Season 3, primarily because of Ben, his  backstory and how it relates to the overall island mythology.

It is rather amazing to me how we are now rooting for and sympathizing with Benjamin Linus. This is the same man who killed his own father and an entire village of people, was responsible for his daughter's murder, strangled John Locke and stabbed Jacob to death...among others. Simply brilliant and outstanding - I tip my hat in the direction of that writer's room in Building 23.

In the interest of time, because I need to get a few hours of sleep, I am not including many photos or screen grabs from this episode. 

Before we begin, I wanted to let you know that I posted my interview with Michael Emerson (from the red carpet at the S6 premiere in Hawaii) yesterday, to coincide with this Ben-centric episode; click here to read the transcript and here to listen to the audio!

Season 3 Parallels!

  • Nikki and Paulo fight over diamonds they stole and ultimately die on the island after being paralyzed by spiders (perhaps Smokey manifestations) and being buried alive. In this episode, Miles refers to them and winds up digging up the diamonds.
One of Us
  • Jack, Kate and Sayid return to and reunite with their friends on the beach, and are greeted with happy hugs. But an outsider is with them - Juliet. In this episode, Jack and Hurley return to and reunite with their friends on the beach, and are greeted with happy hugs. But an outsider is with them - Alpert. [sidenote: both scenes are tremendously enhanced by the beautiful Michael Giacchino score - and congratulations to him for winning the Oscar on Sunday for Up!]
The Man Behind the Curtain 
  • Roger and Ben Linus arrive on the island, as Roger has been recruited to work for the Dharma Initiative. In this episode, Roger refers to their time on the island.
  • Ben puts on a gas mask and gases his own father to death. In this episode, Ben helps his father breathe with a new oxygen tank. 
  • Mikhail warns Ben that Naomi has parachuted onto the island and that her ship is not far. In this episode, Widmore is approaching the island on the sub.
  • Locke goes to Jacob's cabin for the first time. In this episode, Alpert returns to the Black Rock for the first time since he arrived on it (presumably.)
  • Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in a mass grave. In this episode, notLocke appears as Ben is digging his own grave. 
The Black Rock

I could not be more excited to see Richard Alpert return to the very ship he arrived on, in chains (presumably), in the same episode where Widmore returns.  In S4, Widmore paid a large sum to purchase the original journal of the first mate from the Black Rock, and he probably knows that it is now marooned in the middle of the jungle on his beloved island. Would anyone really be surprised to find out that Alpert was said first mate?

It certainly seemed as if they wanted us to think that Alex was looking at the Black Rock in her history book with Dr. Linus, but they were discussing the 1813 Charter Act and East India Trading Company. The Black Rock departed England for Thailand, and the journal was found in the 1850's after the ship was "lost at sea" several years earlier. So I'm not sure if there is an actual connection other than a visual one.

The appearance of Dr. Arzt and the Black Rock in the same episode brought back memories of the S1 finale when Arzt blew up outside of the ship while handling the dynamite, which Hurley himself referenced tonight. 

The Candidates

Ilana noted that there are 6 candidates left. We saw notLocke cross Locke's name off of the cave wall, and Ilana herself was at Locke's burial. We also now know that only one Kwon is indeed a candidate - Jin or Sun. So there are 5 remaining:  Ford, Jarrah, Kwon, Reyes, Shephard. 

In the s5 finale, Ilana referred to Frank Lapidus as a potential candidate, and his name does not appear either on the cave wall or lighthouse dial. Although Kate's name is on the lighthouse dial (not crossed out), I am thrown off by the fact that she was not assigned one of THE numbers. So I have a strange feeling that she is the last candidate and underestimated wild card in the pending battle between good and evil...

Exile Island: Elba

As soon as Dr. Linus mentioned the world "exile," I knew we would see Widmore again. 

There are a few parallels between the island of Elba and Lost, the most interesting of which is that there is a village called Marciana that is known for healing waters and natural Springs. Ring a bell? Oh, and the island is known for its wild boar population.

(I Will Be Your) Father Figure

In a few of the flash sideways stories thus far, it is very interesting to note that relationships between main characters and their fathers are vastly different than the ones presented in flashbacks. Roger Linus and Anthony Cooper (Locke and Ben's fathers, respectively) both died on the island, and their sons were responsible. In the flash sideways, Ben is taking care of his father and Locke is inviting his dad to his wedding. 

Although Jack's father Christian is still deceased in the flash sideways (albeit missing), Jack is making an effort to be a better father - to his own son David. 

Fight Club

I have to give credit to Jay and Jack, as I originally heard this theory on their podcast a few episodes back. Of course I laughed about the possibility at first, but after tonight's seems plausible. 

When Alpert told Hurley not to believe what Ghost Jacob had been telling him, it planted the seed that Jacob may not be Captain Good Guy representing the white piece on the backgammon board after all. I've been questioning whether or not the cave belonged to the Man in Black and the Lighthouse belonged to Jacob, but I suppose that the answer may be both. 

If Jacob and the Man in Black are the same person, they may simply represent the Good and Evil scale in every man (and woman). And depending upon which side the remaining characters choose to follow, as well as which side wins the 'war'...I have a strong suspicion that the flash sideways will be the only reality for the winning side, and life as they've lived it after the crash and on the island will be the only choice for the losing side. 

I am not at all convinced that Sawyer will actually side with notLocke, nor will Kate. But given how Sayid has remained the same man in all three dimensions (killing in flashbacks, flash forwards and flash sideways, as well as on the island) and seems infected with the darkness for good...I would be surprised if he did get that second/third/fourth chance with Nadia (as notLocke promised). 

Aside from the S5 finale beach conversation between the two, we have not seen Jacob and the Man in Black in the same place. And now I am thinking that the young blonde boy who appeared in the jungle to the Man in Black must have been young Jacob...the angel on one shoulder reminding the devil on the other about the rules.

If they are the same person, it would seem that the island is a giant game board with two cruel players representing black and white/good and evil. Jacob touches and brings people to the island, and the Man in Black disposes of those who do not wind up showing true Candidate colors once they arrive; thus, he crosses off their names and kills them. Some lives are taken via Smokey, others at the hands of and in ways that seal the fates of others being tested. The two biggest pawns in this game seem to have been Richard Alpert and Ben Linus, but I look forward to finding out just where Charles Widmore fits in...

I'm a Loser, Baby - So Why Don't You Kill Me?

Ben referring to himself as a "loser" was a million shades of the old John Locke. 

Seeing Richard Alpert equally as defeated and wanting to die on the island was just as surprising.  

Napoleon? Dynamite!

I am no history major, but I am utterly intrigued by the possibilities for Charles Widmore's role in the end game if he is indeed a parallel figure.  After all, Napoleon was exiled and returned to rule, only to be defeated in the end... 

The (Principal) Reynolds Principle 

Of course this is a stretch, but so many characters have been specifically named on this show that I can't help but theorize. Perhaps Principal Reynolds is meant as a nod to the Reynolds Transport Theorem. In a nutshell, that concept is as follows: 

what was already there + 
what goes in -
what comes out = 
what is (actually) there

Not only does this make me think about Jacob's discussion with the Man in Black on the beach about Progress, it refers to three separate dimensions. On Lost, we have witnessed Flashbacks, Flash Forwards and Flash Sideways... 

Under the Sea

I was shocked to hear Roger Linus verify that he actually worked for the Dharma Initiative and that he and Ben lived on the island for a time. A subtle difference is that he signed up for it rather than being recruited...

Roger: "That's why I signed up for that Dharma Initiative and took us to the island. They were decent people, smarter than I'll ever be. Imagine how different our lives would be if we'd stayed."
Ben: "We'd have both lived happily ever after."

In current, flash sideways time - the island is submerged under water and the decay on the statue foot seems to indicate that it has been down there for quite a long time. the flash sideways world, I have a million questions. Among them:
  • Did Emily Linus die after giving birth to Ben?
  • Were Roger and Ben sent home on a sub because of the threat of an Incident at the Swan? Was the Incident responsible for sinking the island? If young Ben's relationship with his father was fine, did he not run away and meet Richard Alpert or get shot by Sayid & dipped in the Spring to heal and forget?

I will admit that I teared up when Alex appeared at Dr. Linus' door. 

I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to see Danielle Rousseau in the flash sideways -  working two jobs to make ends meet as a single mom. I seriously doubt that we will, but it is fun to imagine just what she would be doing. Repairing music boxes? Working at an army surplus store?

Given how horribly she died on the island, it was nice to see her interact with Ben in the flash sideways and that her presence provided him with the proper moral compass this time around. 

When Principal Reynolds made a reference about a 'side effect' to Ben's blackmail attempt, I was reminded of S4 (The Shape of Things to Come) when Widmore broke the 'rules' by allowing Alex to get killed by his mercenary Keamy.  


Well, at least we know he's not a Cyborg or vampire. I did wonder, however, how it was possible that Alpert even knew what a Cyborg was. His last off island visit was in the early 2000's, to recruit Juliet - but I doubt that he rented a film and kicked back with some popcorn. And it wasn't as if he lived in the barracks and watched video cassettes like the Others.  

When Alpert told Jack that "I can't kill myself, even if I wanted to," I wondered if that was one of the infamous 'rules.' Earlier this season (The Substitute), the unknown blonde boy in the jungle reminded notLocke that "you know the rules; you can't kill him." I have to assume that this is related.

Alpert's amazing speech to Jack could have easily been delivered by Ben and Locke at many points throughout their lives:

"I devoted my life, longer than you can possibly imagine, in service of a man who told me that everything was happening for a reason; that he had a plan, a plan that I was a part of. And when the time was right, he would share it with me. And now that man is gone. My entire life had no purpose."


Oh Leslie, you wacky scientist. It was subtle and quick, but I did see a bunny in a cage in Arzt's classroom. And we all know how Benjamin feels about bunnies. I was also looking for a rat, perhaps one named Eloise...

I love that both Ben and Leslie are in fact overqualified high school teachers with post graduate degrees in the flash sideways. Dr. Arzt and Dr. Linus, at your service.


Ben: "I want to explain that I know what you're feeling. I watched my daughter die in front of me, and it was my fault. I had a chance to save her, but I chose the island over her...all in the name of Jacob. I sacrificed everything for him, and he didn't even care. I was so angry, confused, terrified. I was about to lose the only thing that ever mattered to me - my power. But the thing that really mattered was already gone. I'm sorry that I killed Jacob. I do not expect you to forgive me because I can never forgive myself."
Ilana: "What do you want?"
Ben: "Let me leave."
Ilana: "Where will you go?"
Ben: "To Locke, because he's the only one that will have me."
Ilana: "I'll have you."

I was riveted by Ben's speech to Ilana, and surprised by her reaction.  I was transported back to young Ben's encounter with the ghost of his mother Emily in the jungle near the sonic fence (The Man Behind the Curtain), when he could not follow her because "it's not time yet, Benjamin." In addition to his obvious daddy issues, Ben has always had unresolved mother issues and when Ilana told him that "I'll have you" - it was as if the sonic fence had been turned off and he finally had one avenue reopened. 

Miles reveals that Jacob "was hoping he was wrong" about Ben. I have to ponder at what point in time Jacob actually crossed Linus off of his list, because most of Ben's egregious actions on and off the island were in (blind) service to Jacob.  

When I first heard that the title of this episode was Dr. Linus, I was hoping we would find out that Ben also has a medical degree. Not only did we see him stitch up Sayid after he was shot in a flash forward, of course I was thinking that perhaps Dr. Juliet Burke would cross paths with Dr. Linus.

Best line of the episode: "Linus, you're a real killer."

Among the many previous events and seasons recalled in this episode, I laughed at Ben's second failed attempt to bribe Miles with $3.2 million (S4, Eggtown). 

Of the many flash sideways lives we've seen thus far, I love Ben's the most - primarily because he makes a choice that is completely opposite of Island Ben. Reynolds asked him if his job (principal) and power were important enough to Ben to make Reynolds lose his job and cause Alex to lose her college recommendation...and the surprising answer was no. 


When Miles read Jacob's ashes to determine how he died, he described Ben holding a bloody dagger in the same way that Ben described Sayid after killing Dogen and Lennon. It has to be significant that both men were killed in the healing Spring, and I would not be surprised to see Dogen (and possibly Lennon) resurrected much like Sayid. If that happens, they might be infected and then work for the dark side/notLocke. However, I tend to think that at least Dogen will appear like Jacob in the afterlife; a spiritual advisor to those working to save the island and remaining inhabitants.


The conversation between Jacob and Ilana while she was in the hospital is starting to become crystal clear. He obviously told her that the Temple was safe, instructed her how to find the safe hiding space within it, gave her intel about everyone currently on the island and that she needed to protect the Candidates. 

When Ilana said that Jacob was "the closest thing that I ever had to a father," I became even more curious about her past and previous time on the island. Last year I attempted to connect Ilana and Alpert as daughter and father, but there are obvious holes in that theory. 

And for what it's worth, I think they've done an excellent job introducing and integrating this character. Although I'd always wanted to believe that Ilana was one of the good guys, I am very happy that it now seems she actually is. 


We've seen Jack slowly transform into a man of faith, but I really and finally appreciate that change tonight:

"I don't think either of us is going to die. I just came from the lighthouse, where my name was etched in wood on a dial that turned a mirror...that somehow reflected an image of the house I grew up in. He wanted me to know that he'd been watching me ever since I was a kid."

I did get goosebumps when Jack told Alpert that they now "go back to where we started" because depending on the outcome of that war between good and evil...that could mean daddy Jack in the flash sideways, or tortured Jack stuck on the island still looking for his father. 


Alpert asserts that "when Jacob touches you, it is considered a gift" but in reality "it's not a gift at all; it's a curse." I suppose this fuels the theory that Jacob is also the Man in Black. 


When Lapidus said that the reason he did not pilot Flight 815 was that he overslept, my first thought is that he was hungover. Remember that when Naomi was recruited by Matthew Abaddon (via Widmore) on the freighter mission to the island, they referred to Frank as a drunk. 

I was always under the assumption that someone had a hand in the Oceanic pilot switch; perhaps Jacob was the one who turned off Lapidus' alarm clock that morning...

In addition, my conspiracy theory is that Seth Norris was killed by Smokey because he WASN'T Lapidus. So I laughed when Ben told Lapidus that "the island still got you in the end."


I loved the many role reversal moments in this episode, particularly between Ben and Locke (and notLocke). The double meaning and irony of substitute teacher Locke's statement encouraging Dr. Linus to make a power play was a highlight: 

"It just sounds like you care about this place. If the man in charge doesn't, maybe it's time for a change." 


I am relieved to see Miles and his skill set put to more use, and was hoping to see him attempt to communicate with Locke's body in the beach grave. Given that Locke's body is in two places yet his soul is currently housed in the dark shell, I am fascinated to see if Miles would be able to read anything at all from the original body. 


"I don't want you to die, Ben. I went back to the statue to get you, but you were already gone."

I love that Ben was the one who killed Locke, and now notLocke is recruiting him to the dark side. I was convinced that regardless of Ilana's offer, Ben would in fact join notLocke. 

And in yet another stellar role reversal, notLocke attempting to manipulate and recruit Ben by dangling a carrot of power was fantastic:

"I'm gathering a group to leave this place for good. Once we're gone, someone needs to be in charge of the island. I can't think of a better man for the job."


I suppose it is safe to assume that Daniel Faraday has something to do with how and why Widmore is able to find the island again, given he's Widmore's son and mommy dearest Eloise Hawking is monitoring 'windows of opportunity' via the Lamp Post station in Los Angeles. 

And I love pondering the possibility that Desmond may be with him on that sub...or somehow follow his coordinates and arrive in time to fight against whatever side he's really on in the big battle. Then again, I'd also love to see Penny again. 
I was able to save my work every few seconds this week and backed it up as well. So no technical difficulties! Thank you for taking the time to read and recommend. As always, I encourage and appreciate constructive comments!

I do not anticipate having time to post a follow-up piece about this episode before next week, even though I have barely touched the surface with these initial thoughts. But stay tuned for that possibility plus more contests and interviews!



Anonymous said...

Early on in the episode, I was half expecting to see Juliet show up as the school nurse that Ben had a crush on!

Even if Roger Linus was recruited by Dharma, he could still say he signed on.

If we hadn't seen a Locke episode with a flash sideways, I'd probably be saying that Jacob was in Locke's body in the flash sideways world, given how he's been guiding people along.

The Partyman said...


Great write-up Jo, I really like the paralell you draw with Ben following Illana being like a sonic fence switching off.

When she told him "I'll have you" I was jumping out of my chair screaming "YES!!!!!" I love that this show can make us feel for characters that as you rightly pointed out, have done some pretty dispicable things.

Michael Emerson. Wow.

I am really liking Illana, and think that Zuleikha Robinson is doing a really nice job there.

I really really really want to know where Richard had come from when Jack and Hurley stumbled across him.

I could totally buy Widmore and Desmond putting aside thier differences for the greater good. It does kinda sounds as if Charles has a greater plan now than simply getting back to the Island - is he headed to Hydra Island to join the fight against Smokey?

Is it Tuesday yet??!

Nana said...

Great recap as usual.

Richard's comment about not being able to kill himself even if he wanted to reminded me of Michael trying to kill himself and not being able to do so.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Jo - You pointed out all the things I was tinking last night and I agree with almost everything you said, except that Jacob and MIB are one and the same person. This was absolutely the best episode this year. I felt such compassion for Ben and Richard - this episode definitely brought out the emotions! I can't wait to see how everything turns out.

Kyle Stedman said...

Great post about the best episode of S6. I find myself most confused about where Kate stands in the Candidates list. You mention that Ilana might be wrong, that there are only 5 candidates left, which is how it would seem if only the 6 attached to the numbers are candidates. But was Ilana counting both Jin and Sun to get to 6, or was she counting one Kwon plus Kate to get to 6? I know you've thought of all this, but it's driving my batty!

There's also a frustrating video of Carlton Cuse (non-spoilery) where he says that Kate's name was on the cave wall and was crossed out, but that it was just a production mistake that a shot of that never aired. But then why wasn't she crossed out in the lighthouse? Did Cuse get his facts mixed up? Is that fuel for your (smart) theory that Kate is going to be a wildcard?

lisaann said...

First thing: we received our DL signed comic this week, hubby is thrilled. Thank you again for encouraging us to give more to such a important cause.
Jo I agree that this was the best episode this season and I think one of the best of the series. I've always loved to hate Ben. He has done such horrible things and yet I feel bad for him. I was happily surprised by so many things about Dr. Linus. Loved the scenes with Alex and enjoyed the scenes with Dr. Artz (who btw seems to have more screen time this season than any of the previous and it's funny that Nikki and Paulo should be mentioned since it was his spider that got them). Darlton and crew have done such an excellent job at twisting our emotions all over the place. Towards the end I was "aww-ing", sniffling and then cheering as Ben followed Ilana back to the beach. The scene with Ben offering to help Sun and the the other Losties returning to the beach along with the wonderful music had me feeling good and smiling from ear-to-ear. (I am concerned that now Ben has seemed to have found a place to be that he's not much longer for this world).
I'm not even really trying to figure too much out this season but just going along for the ride and enjoying every minute of it.
Thank you Jo for entertaining and keeping us company for this fantastic journey!

Leah said...

Love it, Jo! Thank you for helping me like this episode more.

One thing: you wrote "Ilana noted that there are 6 candidates left. We saw notLocke cross Locke's name off of the cave wall, and Ilana herself was at Locke's burial. We also now know that only one Kwon is indeed a candidate - Jin or Sun. So there are 5 remaining: Ford, Jarrah, Kwon, Reyes, Shephard."

How do we know there is only one Kwon? Ilana said she didn't know if she should protect either or both of the Kwons. So, because Ilana said 6 (after she knew Locke was dead), I think she meant both Kwons as possibilities.

I think Alpert's bad mouthing Jacob was all because he didn't believe Jacob has a plan for after his own death. Alpert thinks we can't trust Jacob because Jacob died and Alpert takes that personally. I also think he meant Jacob's touch was also a 'curse' because his long life of service looks meaningless to Alpert at this point. I think he thought the touch was all gift until Jacob died.

b said...

fantastic show!! my favorite of the season. just an interesting addition to your always wonderful recaps. Here are the lyrics to the leonard cohen song 'bird on wire' played to end the episode last night. Very fitting indeed:

Bird On A Wire - Leonard Cohen

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
Like a worm on a hook,
like a knight from some old fashioned book
I have saved all my ribbons for thee.
If I, if I have been unkind,
I hope that you can just let it go by.
If I, if I have been untrue
I hope you know it was never to you.

Like a baby, stillborn,
like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me.
But I swear by this song
and by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee.
I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch,
he said to me, "You must not ask for so much."
And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door,
she cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"

Oh like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.

Rocket Science Mom said...

Jo, as soon as I watched the episode (time delayed after I got the kids to bed) I wanted to immediately watch it again..and then I wanted to read what all my Lost bloggers had to say.

This was easily my second favorite episode of the entire series after the Constant for the emotional resonance. After it ended I was still crying.

God love Michael Emerson. He took a character I loved to hate from his first second on screen and made him someone that I've been rooting for all season to find his soul and be one of the good guys that I knew he could be. :)

This one was awesome.

Your review didn't disappoint. How do you know so much stuff. :)

Grogferret said...

Great post as usual.

Lets not forget who Ben essentially is before we go all lovey-dovey for him, a liar!
He gives his sob story to Llana only after MIB has promised him power, Ben could have tried his last resort story anytime proir to their stand-off ( as other attempts had failed, trying to bribe Miles again, psychics are not reliable ), his lie to Llana is he sacrificed his daughter for the island when in fact he clearly did everything to save his own skin.

Austen is candidtate 6 #51

As for Widmore finding the island, remember just before Sun boards Ajira 316 she is whisked off to a secret meeting with Widmore a cordoned off area of the airport? We never witness the extent of their conversation maybe Widmore asked her to carry some type of GPS device just an observation.

Sorry for the long post thanks again for the post roll on next week!

jennY said...

Ok can't wait to read this but first off.. the Joy Division song! So awesome i have to repost that!

Sara said...

I was so excited that you touched upon the idea that Jacob = Man in Black... ever since Jack mentioned it in their podcast a few weeks ago, I can't stop thinking about it. I love the idea, as improbable as it may seem. So thank you for elaborating on it and giving me more to think about!

Seeing Charles Widmore at the end of the episode made me giddy. I too am hoping that Desmond is in that sub with him because I am getting impatient to see Desmond again, and I want him to have a big part in the final battle.

Thanks so much for another great episode review - it's the best part of Wednesday morning!

- Sara in NH

Sommery said...

Hi Jo,

Excellent post, as usal. I believe that there are actually SIX cantidates still, as Ilana stated. That would be: Ford, Jarrah, Kwon, Reyes, Shephard and AUSTEN. She was listed on the wheel, and not crossed off. I have heard that she was on the wall in the cave, but that shot was edited out of the final product. I haven't given up on Kate yet, as so many have.

Target-Addict said...

Great post, Jo! Question for you: what do you make of the fact that Jacob - when he visited the burned Ilana in the hospital - was wearing gloves? He did not "touch" her, did he? Isn't that significant, since Richard Alpert talked about "Jacob's touch" last night? And that fact that Jacob has seemingly touched all the candidates?

And Grogferret: I had the very same thought about Sun (and have for awhile now) - that Widmore gave her a GPS tracking advice to take (or wear) on the plane, and that it'd be his way to eventually find the island.

Grogferret said...

@target addict

Yeah that was my initial thought but then i went and gave myself a headache:-

Is this the REAL Widmore coming to the island? ( i.e the one who may have given Sun a gps/ helped Locke in the desert )

Or is this some Alt-Widmore from the Sideways Universe who now may not be Bens enemy, may have desmond in tow? ( but how if the islands underwater?? )

Not knowing what the sideways is a completely other Widmore???

Any ideas my head just exploded

Target-Addict said...

@Grogferret, that's a little too deep for me. I'm gonna roll with the assumption that there's only one Widmore - the original recipe - and that's the one coming to the island in the sub.

But you did get me to wondering more about Widmore, which made me wonder this: is the sub headed for the Hydra station? If so, that's where notLocke is headed, so are he and Widmore in cahoots? From Jacob's comments in 'The Lighthouse' about someone coming to the island, one would assume that Jacob summoned him, but what if notLocke did instead? And what if in this "war" that's about to take place, Widmore is on Locke's side? That could be why Widmore invested so much time in getting Locke back to the island.

Grogferret said...


Ok seems to make sense its the normal widmore whos tiped up to the island.
Helping Locke would imply he is on Unlockes side but there is no real evidence for this.
Widmore I think is a little like Ben used to be in previous seasons- a little ' one step ahead of the game' so maybe well have to wait to see his agenda.

Also at this point it seems Jacob and Unlocke 'help' each other i.e Jacob sending Sayid to the temple where he knew full well what was to happen, Unlocke just letting Richard go to warn everyone who he is and have his moment with jack and then dropping the hint to Ben that him and his entourage are at the Hydra station just incase Jack needs to know....just a thought

Erin said...

Forget favorite episode of the season; I'm pretty sure this is my favorite episode ever. It's the one I've waited for so long that the catharsis was such that I was simply unable to hold in my exuberance, and let loose with several wild whoops throughout the evening. Just a perfect episode. Loved it so much. And that tiny moment when he came back to the beach and offered to help Sun, when he laid his gun against the hut, those 5 or 10 seconds put a huge lump in my throat and pretty much encapsulated everything I loved about the episode, and Ben's arc. I knew he'd wind up one of the Good Guys. Vindication!!

I'm so with you on the score. So many gorgeous moments this episode, not to mention the sheer humor of the Hurley-trying-to-lead-Jack-astray music. I hope that makes it to the soundtrack. And I'm really loving Ilana, so much. She's fast becoming one of my favorite female characters.

I also chuckled over Richard's cyborg thing. Seems weird he'd be familiar with that term, but he seems to have a vast store of knowledge about all sorts of things. Just not how Jacob works... It's also possible he has no idea what it is, but it's a pretty safe guess he isn't it!

Pavement Runner said...

I had the same conversation with wifey about the Cyborg thing... my thought process was the same as yours.... LOL. Also my fav. episode of the season to date, but that's not saying much considering I have been disapointed thus far.

Great post Jo.... I dont know if people will be upset if they find out that Lost was a giant game of backgammon with people... good theory tho.

Justin said...

hello jo, long time reader, first time commenter, with that said, i didn't read through the comments terribly closely, but i have an interesting theory....

so, when the bomb blew, everything after was changed, but everything before happened. with that said, little ben was already put in the spring and separated from his father, i'm going to assume, since we didn't see it, but the others put ben back in dharmaville (they had to of at some point, so he could gas everyone later down the road). at this point dad and little ben got on the sub back to the mainland.
now the bomb goes off, and kills everyone (even richard, jacob and man in black) and only the people on the sub made it off. this might provide some kind of bridge between the two realities, with ben going into the spring in the temple and thus being the only one of jacob's men to get off the island.
however, either he doesn't realize it yet or he's hiding it pretty well after the way he acted in this episode....


Brian said...


Someone on another site pointed out the possibility of things changing earlier than 1977. It's definitely hard to follow, but the gist is that those who were bouncing around in time (Sawyer, Miles, Faraday, Locke, Juliet) had gone back as far as 1954 and interacted with people on the Island. If the bomb goes off in 1977, it has the possibility of changing things as early as 1954, because of the possible "butterfly effect." There are so many different loops of time involved, it makes my head hurt.

Jo, thanks for the commentary, as always. Did you get goosebumps seeing Ben give his father gas again? When I saw the oxygen tanks, I thought back to the purge. I definitely like sideways Roger better than the previous version.

I wasn't surprised to see Widmore only because I had turned on my digital cable, hit the "info" button and saw he would be on the episode. (I don't like it when such a surprise is ruined.) So, it wasn't a surprise, and yet, when I think of it, it is. Why didn't Widmore take a sub to the Island years earlier? Why now?

I'm assuming he found the Island with Eloise's help. Faraday would be dead. And Widmore knew that Hawking was in L.A. - he told Desmond to go see her. So, maybe he finally decided he had to meet up with his ex in order to get back to the Island. (And we've seen Widmore in L.A. before, at least to meet Sun.)

I also would assume he is heading to the other island, since he was ready to pass by the camp on the beach. Was he going to meet up with unLocke? So many questions.

Man, I'm beginning to forget what Sawyer looks like.

I was hoping for an episode devoted to Richard in which we would see the Black Rock arriving. After last night, I'm not sure. Given that there are only 11 hours of the show left, perhaps we don't have time for that. I had all kinds of crazy ideas of what would be shown on the Black Rock.

Jack has fully become the man of faith. I do wonder what he means by going back to where they came from. Is that off-Island or to one of the stations or what?

I like your idea about the winning side getting the sideways and the losing side being stuck with the Island. The "good" guys we've seen off Island seem to be doing well (even Dr. Linus), while the "bad" guys - Sayid, so far - are not faring so well. I'm still totally stumped as to how the sideways fits in. Darlton have said the sideways story is very important, not just some diversion, so it must factor into the end of the story, but I can't see how. At least the sideways story provides some interesting commentary for what happens on the Island, much as the flashbacks gave us commentary about what happened on the Island, particularly in the first season.

With Widmore back, I think we should see Desmond and Penny, and I can't believe that after "Sundown" we won't see Aaron. Particularly after the creepy version of "Catch a falling star." It seems that the whole party is going to end up on the Island for a final showdown.

Grogferret said...

Don't think Jack has become fully a man of faith, two weeks ago in his own timeline of events roughly, he was ready to top himself off a bridge and very recently he told hurley he was broken and was stupid enough to think the island could fix him.
Jack is acting manic and impulsive.

Brian said...

@Grogferret: perhaps Jack's long look out to sea has changed him. I don't think the old Jack would admit he was broken and I think he had to hit bottom (not long ago he was a bearded drug addict, as you point out) and get back to the Island before he resurfaced as the man of faith. That might seem like a quick change to us, but I don't doubt that's what the writers are doing.

Jo, one more thing: I think Dogen and Lennon have served their purpose. I would be surprised to see them revived. I think one difference between Sayid and them is that Sayid was touched by Jacob. Which leads me to something else: could Jacob have touched young Ben before he came to the Island, and we haven't seen it yet? Ben should have died by now, but perhaps Jacob had a purpose for him.

Also, Jack and Richard seem to have established that once touched by Jacob, they can't die. I'm not sure if that's true, but Sayid didn't die (though he became "infected") and this bit of information gives me some hope about Locke.

VERY far-fetched: Paolo and Nikki apparently were burried alive. They were just referenced. Could Locke arise from his grave? Crazy, but perhaps true.

Lorie said...

Interesting: Locke invites Ben to come to the Hydra Station. The word Ὕδρα (Hydra) means creature of the water. Could the nature of the beast be from under the water? The word "hydra" also means "Any persistent or ever-increasing evil with many sources and causes."

Joanna said...

wow, thanks for your blog jo. what amazing insight and i love your theories! I wondered if you had ever thought about Jacobs gifts to the other candidates. The pen to Sawyer, paying for the stuff Kate stole, the candy bar to Jack, the guitar case to Hurley, the blessing to the Kwons at their wedding. What confuses me is that he seemed to take Nadia from Sayid. i don't recall him giving him anything in the past, just asking for directions. Any thoughts?

Sherylm said...

Well, there are not too many TV programs - or films for that matter - where you sit around with your family discussing the meaning of redemption like we did after watching that great episode last night :-) Michael Emerson is one talented actor and I was so happy to see Ben interacting positively with Alex.

Our final consensus, after some heated debate, was that while Ben may not have redeemed himself for all the really bad things he did in the past - while thinking (mistakenly in my estimation) that he was doing it all for Jacob - what he clearly showed was that no matter how bad you are, you still have the choice to continue being bad or to simply stop and accept the consequences of your past actions. I thought it was great that Ben was redeemed by paternal love - his love for Alex and Ilana's love for Jacob.

In that slow-motion scene, I saw Ben (and not Richard) in the place of Juliet as the outsider who still has to prove himself, especially during the shot just before the sub when everyone is clustered together on the beach and Ben is hanging back.

As has already been mentioned here, Richard was talking like a hurt child and I saw all his "warnings" in that context. It was just like when you do something your child doesn't like and doesn't understand, they then tell everyone who will listen what a bad and evil parent you are, who never keeps their promises. That doesn't make what they are saying true ;-)

I was glad to see that Jack is finally starting to understand things. I liked him more in this episode than I have in any since the first half of Season 1. As Jacob pointed out, some people like Hurley just know how to have faith and others like Jack have to learn faith the hard way - but that seemed to be the key to helping Richard regain his.

My son is with you on the possible Widmore-Desmond alliance. I'm not too sure but I just want them to bring Desmond and Penny back and explain why he is so special (but I would like the same for Walt, too, and maybe redemption for Michael)

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!