Thursday, March 5, 2009

Flower Power: LOST, Episode 5.08 - "LaFleur"

Say you'll come back when you can.
WHENEVER your airplane happens to land.
Maybe I'll be back here too.
It all depends on what's with you.
Grateful Dead, "Cosmic Charlie"

I'm not even going to pretend that I truly followed the time line and shifts in this episode. I'll do my best to analyze and question the proper eras; at this hour, mistakes are likely so I appreciate your patience in advance!

So let's get started...


Jerry and Phil were wearing the same jumpsuits as Jin and Sawyer. It appears that the star symbol denotes Dharma Security.

And I am thrilled that they showed Dharma mechanic shop as well, because when we were on the Lost Tour a few weeks ago...we saw that Motor Pool logo (wrench) and a scene being filmed there! Of course as a spoiler-free blog, I cannot divulge further details until that episode (14) airs.


In last week's blog, I posed the following:
"Is Hurley's drawing of Egypt going to come into play? Geographically...Egypt and Tunisia are only separated by one country (Libya). Could it be that Egypt is another island exit portal? And could the ancient 4 toed statue be related?"
I believe the answer is yes - Egypt is now integral to the overall arc:
  • Dharma Paul (Amy's first husband) was wearing an Ankh necklace, which is an Egyptian hieroglyphic for eternal life (Alpert anyone?) and fertility (ding ding)
  • There are hieroglyphics down below the Orchid near the FDW and on Ben's secret spy room door in New Otherton
  • The infamous four-toed statue may very well be an important Egyptian god or creature (and an Ankh appears to be in the right hand)


Amy successfully gave birth, as both mother and child lived. Did she conceive the child off-island, as Claire had? Is that why they survived?

Or...if 'the incident' had an affect on pregnant women, does Amy's birth signify that it hasn't happened yet?

And you just KNOW that they specifically didn't tell us the name of Amy and Horace's son. It has to be someone we already know. My guess is that it is Alex's boyfriend, Karl.


I assume this will occur in Season 6, but...who will be the one to next turn the FDW after the Oceanic 6/Ajira Five are all reunited with Sawyer & co. back in that era, returning them to real time?


At that earlier point in time on the island, there were still polar bears around (presumably being housed in the cages over on the smaller Hydra island). So were the Dharma security guys aware of the animals because they were being brought over to the main island as guinea pigs to turn the FDW (thus the polar bear skeleton w/the Dharma collar in the exit point in Tunisia)? Or is it as simple as them viewing the bears in the Hydra station on the Dharma monitors?


Why is one sub docked there, and yet the other is being used every two weeks? Is it inoperable at that point?

Ethan and Alpert drugged Juliet for the rough journey to the island via sub. Is that really how they transported pregnant women too? Or was that a rouse so that she simply wouldn't know how long the trip was and what the route was?


I love how Ethan Rom and Juliet worked as a plumber and mechanic (respectively) when they weren't acting in their true capacities as doctors on the island. In addition to Latin, were all of the Others required to take Auto Shop 101, etc.? Oh, and Marksmanship 202 of course.


It struck me when Miles commented that the last flash (after Locke turned the Frozen Donkey Wheel) felt more like an earthquake than those during the previous time shifts. Could it be that the turn of that wheel causes the island's previously dormant volcano to erupt at some point during this era, resulting in 'the incident?'


Should we assume that they've left the island at this point?

If Ellie is Penny's mom, assuming she wasn't exiled like Charles...did she get pregnant on the island and take the sub back to have the baby safely? At that previous point in time was the sub even available to them or in operation to and from the island?


Will we meet her parents? Is their identity significant?

Was she born on the island, or brought there when her parents were recruited by Dharma?

When Ben states her life's facts out loud after she first parachuted onto the island, his information about her age was either inaccurate or purposefully misleading. He said she was born in 1979 but I believe that we were viewing 1974 or so in tonight's episode, and young Red was two or three years old at that point...

We now know that Jin has been in Dharmaville for three years - is that how Charlotte learns to speak Korean? Does he bond with her as a child and teach her the language?

Will we see the point in time when Faraday becomes the 'evil man' that warns her never to return to the island or she'll die?

What is the significance of her deceased body moving through time? Is that why other bodies are buried (like Alpert's men tonight and Karl & Rousseau in the future)?


Was Horace the temporary leader between the Widmore and Ben eras?

When does he build Jacob's cabin?

Was he lying when he said he'd never heard of the Black Rock ship? Where else would he have gotten the dynamite? Was he the one who wired The Flame station with the C-4 (that Locke eventually used to detonate both that station and the sub)?

What happened to Olivia Goodspeed; was she his second wife? She was with him when they 'discovered' Ben immediately after Emily Linus gave birth outside of Portland, and Olivia was also Ben's school teacher on the island (she was teaching the class about the island's volcano; see photo above).

He is wearing an Arrow station Dharma logo jumpsuit. In Season 2, the tail section folks from flight 815 found the following items in the abandoned Arrow: a glass eye, a Bible containing missing sections of the Orientation film that Desmond had in the Swan hatch and a walkie-talkie. any of those belong to Horace? Can we assume that the glass eye belongs to Mikhail?

In last season's "Cabin Fever" episode, Horace spoke to Locke in a dream. He told him that in order to find Jacob, Locke would have to find Horace first. We then see Locke find a map in the pocket of deceased Horace's jumpsuit. However, that message could hold greater meaning now...I have a feeling that when Locke appears during this older era and runs into Horace, he'll finally discover how to find and communicate with Jacob.


Was he a hostile or Dharma, or does his existence on the island date back to the days of the Black Rock shipwreck?

Did he play a role in the truce between Richard's hostiles and the Dharma folk? Does he have/take a side at that point?


The sub was available to shuttle pregnant Dharma women back and forth from the island every two weeks. And we know that the sub was still functional a few decades later, because that is how Juliet arrived on the island. So did Ben make the decision to cut off that service to pregnant women, or just to lure/recruit Juliet?

Knowing that the sub could have transported women back to the real world to safely deliver their is seeming more likely that Ben chose one life (Juliet's) over the lives of many women and their babies. We knew he had a serious/psycho crush ("you're mine, Juliet!"), but there has to be more to it than ever imagined. Even though I can't work out the logistics in my head right now (and the time shifts have allowed me to cross my suspension bridge of disbelief), Juliet may very well turn out to be his childhood girlfriend Annie.

You all know by now how I feel about Juliet. All I have to say about the new love triangle is, damn it Kate, run! (sorry Skaters, but I'm all for my girl finally getting; even with your beloved Sawyer). And no, I don't think she was ever in love with Goodwin. And yes, I realize that Freckles is going to ruin everything for Dr. J. Sigh.

I love how Kate flat out refused to stay on the island for a minute longer when he asked her to, even though she had an established (albeit untraditional) relationship with Sawyer...and it took one conversation to convince Juliet to stay for two more weeks.


He'd lied about being an original member of the Dharma Initiative, but he was stationed at The Flame under Ben's leadership and era. They mention The Flame in tonight's episode, so I expected Patchy to show up on screen at any moment. I suppose he hadn't arrived on the island yet.


Does Miles use his ability to communicate with the dead during his 3 years in Dharmaville to gather information from the deceased?

IF he is Pierre Chang's (Dr. Marvin Candle) son, do they cross paths during those three years? And if they do, it would be doubtful that either would recognize one another...


He appeared to be wearing the same modern clothes during the Horace Dharma era that he was donning during the soldier Widmore era. Yet when he encountered young Ben after he first arrived on the island, he was wearing the dirty Hostile attire. Was/is it an act for just him, or are the other Hostiles simply following suit? {pun only slightly intended}

Is immunity to the sonic fence a characteristic of being ageless?

Does Richard accept Paul's deceased body instead of punishing Sawyer for killing 2 of his men because Paul is a sacrifice that the island demanded? Will he offer or bring him to Jacob?

By the way, I LOVE the writers for Sawyer's shout out to and about our favorite Guyliner, Richard Alpert/Nestor Carbonell ("our buddy out there with the eyeliner").


Fulfilling his own prophecy:

New sheriff in town, boys! You all best get used to it.
James Ford (Episode 2.13, "The Long Con")

Just as Jack instructed the Oceanic 6 to lie to protect themselves off island, Sawyer is doing the same on-island for the Marooned 5 (Faraday, Jin, Juliet, Miles & Sawyer).


Dharma girl Rosie was wearing a Geronimo Jackson tee.

The Dharma security guys were probably named in homage to the Grateful Dead: Phil (Lesh) and Jerry (Garcia). My brother was a Deadhead in high school; I would have missed that otherwise.


1) Kate is expecting. In addition to being distraught about handing over Aaron to an unknown entity before returing to the island via Ajira 316, Kate was visibly upset because:
  • She was unsure exactly HOW she'd return to the island; a crash could harm the baby.
  • She was dreading a reunion with Sawyer because she is pregnant with Jack's child.
  • During that infuriatingly vague breakfast with Ben on the beach back in Season 3, when she was handcuffed after being taken hostage along with Jack and Saywer...Ben told her she was about about to have a very difficult two weeks. My theory is that he also informed her that it was her destiny to provide/bring a third Shephard heir to the island. In typical Kate fashion, she rebelled by sleeping w/Sawyer at that time. And off island, once she learned she was pregnant with Jack's baby, she finally agreed to return to the island. Begrudgingly, she decided to stop fighting her fate.
2) Horace was present immediately following Ben's birth (he and Olivia 'happened upon' Roger and Emily Linus right after she gave birth to Ben in a forest outside of Portland), just as Alpert was present immediately following Locke's birth. Neither were coincidence.

Horace was the person assigned to recruiting Ben to the island (via his father). Ben was supposed to lead the island in the future. The island/Jacob/Richard believed that Ben was special, as they did Locke (and probably Widmore). That is why hostile Alpert told young Ben at their first encounter in the jungle that he had to be patient. Years later we saw Ben overseeing the Purge and exterminating the Dharma folk. He continues to hold a leadership position, at least with or over Alpert. The question Ben and Widmore cross paths on the island, and is that the 'war' that Widmore warns Locke about?

After re-reading that last paragraph, I realized that it's time to shut down for the night. Please excuse any ramblings or inconsistencies. Hopefully I will do a follow-up post to this one on the weekend. Thank you for taking the time to stop by and read this particular; I appreciate it more than you'll ever know.

I would love to hear your comments; have a nice weekend!


bianconiglio said...


Anonymous said...

Great post. One thought comes to mind though, wouldn't Karl be much older if he were Amy and Horace's baby? The baby is born in or about 1977 making that baby about 27 at the time of the crash, iirc Alex and Karl were about 16 or so.

Bren Keller said...

Egypt is going to play a very important role, it seems. Hurley's drawing, the ankh, giant Anubius statue (4 toes), hieroglyphs. Richard (eyeliner buddy) reminds me of the "immortal" pharaohs. Hmm...anyone else agree?

1miletogo said...

Here are a few initial thoughts after 1 watching of LaFleur

Could Locke turning the FDW caused the earthquake, which in turn toppled the statue?

I think Charolottes body remained in Ancient times when Locke turned the FDW and Daniel skipped out to the DHARMA '74.

I think that the '74 events in LaFleur take place 2 or 3 years after the events of the man behind the curtain. I think that Olivia was killed soon after the events of the Man Behind the Curtain. It seemed that there wasn't a truce in place during that episode since there was a hostile attack. Maybe Olivia's death leads to the truce. So at the end of LaFleur we are now in '77, so this puts Bens age around 16 and we are 2 years away from the famous incident.

Jacob may have been the original Christian Shephard. I have a feeling that Jacob either was from the black rock, died and was resurrected. Or he traveled off the island recruited the black rock and brought the ship to the island. Some of the natives are from the crew of the black rock, I think that some of the crew may have been resurrected upon arrival to the island.

I think Ben's crush on Juliet started when he first saw her on the island as a teenager. He got infatuated by her and then amazed when he saw her again in the future and wondered how she hadn't aged.

I think that Sawyers Gun jammed when he tried to shoot the first hostile, I swore I heard a click. Did The island prevent him for some reason from shooting the first hostile?

rlowene said...

First thought is maybe Olivia is Horace's first wife and something happens to her between the time Ben is born and Amy's husband Paul dies, we just haven't been told what happened yet.
Second thought is what happened to the rest of the 815 survivors? Were they all killed by the flaming arrows on the beach or have we just not seen them lately? (ie - Rose)

Oh and I think that 3 yrs earlier is 1974 (as mentioned by Sawyer to Juliette on the dock) making 3 yrs later 1977 or so. On the note I like Sawyer & Juliette together! He seems truly happy with her like he never was with Kate.

maven said...

Good quick job, Jo. You can add to your Egypt theory Kohl eyeliner used extensively by Ancient Egyptians. Either Sawyer was doing a shout out to fans or making a point of Richard's eyeliner so we can connect the dots.

Also, in your section on Surgeons: We have to remember that Ethan and Juliet were Others...not Dharma people. We know for sure that Juliet was recruited by Ben who was, at that point, the leader of the Others (or former Hostiles) aka the indigenous people.

Anonymous said...

Love ur recaps, Jo !!!

Only one thing:

Amy's baby is not Karl.
Amy gave birth in 1977,
which would make Karl 27
in 2004.

1miletogo said...

Could Amy's baby be Ethan? One quick thought, what would have happened to Amy if Juliet and Sawyer weren't there to rescue her? The show points to the thought that what happened had happened and that the LOSTIES always were in DHARMA '74, but that could be course correction.

Nurby said...

I think I have to rewatch this one. But now I am wondering... Alpert is everywhere never aging, why is he not the leader, why do others have to keep coming in to lead?

Also if Horace has a connection to Jacob, isn't Alpert also in connection with Jacob? Are they at some point working together?

Sorry I may just need some sleep but I am getting confused.

ashlie said...

Nurby, I've been wondering the same thing all season. If Richard is so awesome and ageless, why does he have to keep recruiting someone else to lead him and his people? Why doesn't he have any higher authority? Or is that just his position, to recruite new leaders? Who knows, I can't even begin to imagine where the writers are going this season!

As far as the baby, I think the baby is definitely important, but I'm not convinced that he grows up to be someone we know *yet*. I think he will turn out to be some other highly influential character that we just haven't encountered.

BTW, I love how the writers can just show us the back of a statue and then we all start wildly researching Egyptian Mythology. I'd like to see any other show have that kind of power over us!

Keep up the good work, Jo!

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't Horace have been with Olivia before he was with Amy? Ben was presumably born in the 60s.

Barry said...

1) There were also heiroglyphics in the Swan, when the numbers went down to 00:00:00 and all hell started breaking loose. Yes, I believe Egypt will play a large role in the history of the island.

2) I also believe that whatever causes the island's infertility problems begins after where we are now in the story. Either the Incident or The Purge is the cause - my guess the Incident, because it affects the Hostiles as well as Dharma, and is itself a reason behind the Purge.

3) No, I don't think Karl is the baby either - he would have been 27 while dating a 16-yr-old Alex. Plus the character seemed way younger than 27. And I would believe nobody currently alive at the Dharma camp survives the purge. I'm thinking the baby is someone important to the future that was not born before Sawyer, et al interfered with the past. Someone that was, perhaps, supposed to be born all along and was prevented previously.

4) What makes you think polar bears are/were used to turn the FDW? Was that mentioned somewhere? I don't get the impression the FDW is turned all that much, since it was walled up but I may be wrong.

5) I think there's only one sub - Horace said Sawyer and the gang could leave the next day on the sub. It would be back in two weeks if they wanted to stay and look for their "shipmates", and they could leave then.

6) The whole "drugging Juliette" was probably so she wouldn't notice they were passing through the island barrier and start asking questions.

7) If it was as easy as it was for Amy to get through the Sonic Fence using earplugs, it must be just as easy for the Others to do so. Keep in mind the Fence was primarily to keep out Smokey, not the Others.

8) That's a good theory about Horace being present at Ben's birth the same way Alpert was at Locke's - that they knew about it beforehand, via the babies' time traveling future selves. In a future episode somewhere, Ben tells Horace to visit the Pacific Northwest to prove he is who he is.