Thursday, April 16, 2009

LOST, Episode 5.13 - "Some Like it Hoth"

Last summer at Comic-Con, they unveiled this video. It is now more relevant than ever. So I encourage you to watch this before reading my initial theories about this week's episode.

Here are my thoughts about "Some Like it Hoth"...


Last season, we saw Tom show Michael the empty grave photo and purchase order for the old airplane (when he was trying to convince him to join the freighter crew to work secretly for Ben). So it is clear that Ben (or his henchmen) killed that man Felix en route to deliver those documents to Widmore.

I look forward to when Little Linus reappears after healing from his injury under the care of Alpert's Hostiles, to see how he/they explain his absence. We know that he starts leading a double life at some point, working with Dharma and Dad by day and roaming the jungle with the Hostiles by night.

I still want to know what he stored in the hotel vent before returning to the island, and if he brought it with him...


Now we can connect the dots between Ben, Ilana and Bram. Many of us wondered if she was hired by Ben, instructed to seduce then arrest Sayid to get him on Ajira 316 and bring a cache of guns (presumably in that large metal crate), and now that seems to be the case. In addition, it now makes sense that Miles attempted to blackmail Ben last season in the amount of $3.2 million dollars, because he told Bram that was the price to bribe him into NOT going to the island (and why Ben answered 'yes' when Miles first met him and asked if he knew who he was).

Ben's secret island password is the phrase "do you know what lies on the shadow of the statue?" so I'm guessing that the snowman joke is Widmore's...


I wasn't able to catch all of the hieroglyphic images and text from the chalkboard that Jack was cleaning, but it clearly contained information about Old, Middle and Late Egyptians, and the progression of their communications tools. According to this site, ancient ideograms are signs the represent exactly what they mean (i.e. the bird symbol on the chalkboard signifies an actual bird; insert Hurleybird theories here). And phonography is very early form of script.

That the Swan hatch is being constructed during this time and will contain a hieroglyphic countdown clock is not a coincidence. I find it fascinating that the Dharma folk would be teaching their children about Egpytian history during an era when the sacred Temple was used solely by the Hostiles...even though it will become future safe sanctuary for the Others.


First of all, we need to discuss whether or not Miles was born on the island or if Mrs. Chang was sent via sub to deliver back in the real world. If he was born on the island, it would be interesting to find out if he was also conceived there; that we know of, only Amy has successfully conceived and delivered on the island thus far (baby Ethan). If Miles was born off island, why do they bring mother and child back so quickly?

Mrs. Chang seemed to be dying slowly and prematurely. Did she become ill as a result of something on the island? Given that Widmore wanted get Miles on that freighter to go to the island and speak with the dead...could or would Widmore have poisoned her or someone been the cause? I've always assumed that Ben had Nadia killed to get Sayid back to the island; who's to say that Widmore isn't just as evil in his intentions.

[And did anyone else immediately think about Theresa Spencer, Faraday's comatose mystery woman in England, when they saw Mrs. Chang on her death bed attached to various wires and machines? I thought for a moment there that she too was a time shift experiment gone wrong, perhaps resulting from her island departure.]

It struck me as odd that Miles said his mom appeared in line behind him in the Dharma cafeteria, because as he explained to Hurley, he speaks with the dead but does not see them. Not sure how to explain that discrepancy, but perhaps he also sees and speaks with ghosts like Hurley does. {IGNORE! Thanks to Brad and many others who reminded me that at that point in time, Mrs. Chang was alive & well on the island!}

Bram refers to Miles' 'gift' and alludes to knowing how and why he has it. Walt shares a similar gift of clairvoyance, which is probably why Ben had Walt kidnapped back in Season 1; he wanted to use Walt for the same reasons that Widmore hired Miles.

We hear baby Miles crying in the background of the Barracks video above as Chang warns about the 'purge' he believes he will die in. Is it safe to say that he learns about the future from either Mature Miles or Faraday (whom most assume is the voice behind the camera)? Chang appears to be sitting in the Swan hatch during this video, so we should see the completed hatch before the end of this season.

In both the Swan station film and Flame station computer video, Dr. Chang has a prosthetic left arm, but in the Orchid, Pearl and Barracks video above, he has two functional arms. So he must survive the purge he references, but lose the arm in the process and then appear in the Swan and Flame videos.


In a previous episode, Radzinsky seemed hell bent on preventing the Hostiles from finding out about the Swan hatch. But there is no way that the Dharma folk have created such a huge construction site without Richard Alpert knowing. So is there an agreement between the two factions, and if so...what do the Hostiles receive in return for allowing them to use that space?


Logistically, how and when did Faraday leave the island during that three year period in Dharmaville? If he'd turned the Frozen Donkey Wheel and exited in Tunisia, we would have seen the island affected via time shifts. But they stopped, for at least these three years.

We know that Faraday's research is funded by Widmore. Did he go see him or his mom Eloise when he left the island? Something tells me that mommy dearest had something to do with how he left in the first place...

I have to say that when I heard that "scientists from Ann Arbor" were arriving in Dharmaville, I was excited to finally meet the infamous DeGroots. Of course that statement implies more than one person, so Faraday won't be the only one to emerge from that sub.


We now know why Charlotte, Faraday and Miles were specifically chosen by Widmore (via Matthew Abaddon) for their mission to the island, so I'm hoping that we'll find out the real reason that Lapidus was sent there...


I love that he is continuously evolving and filling various roles; tonight he was both therapist and screenwriter.


There are two ways to interpret Dr. Chang's threat to "ship" Hurley over to Hydra Island to work as a polar bear pooper scooper; either he is literally just sent there, or there is a method of transportation aside from the sub that we have yet to see. I realize that it is only 1.5-2 miles away, but I just don't see Dharma sending people back and forth frequently via outrigger canoe.

Given that we saw Charlotte uncover a polar bear skeleton with a Dharma collar in the Tunisian desert (which is the island's time shift exit), I am assuming that Dr. Chang is referring to the polar bears on Hydra as "ridiculous experiments" because he does not believe that they should be used as guinea pigs to push the Frozen Donkey Wheel and wind up in Tunisia. It seems that at this point in time, the polar bears are being stored and prepped over on Hydra, but not yet subjected to the Frozen Donkey Wheel. But because we've seen that the wheel is located in probably the only locale on the island at that temperature, it makes sense that they'll bring the polar bears over at some point to acclimate and become more comfortable in their normal cold environment.


She serves a similar purpose to Eloise Hawking; getting specific individuals to that island. Obviously Naomi becomes more of a physical presence in that process, as opposed to a metaphysical one.


We see 'the numbers' being imprinted on the Swan hatch quarantine door. Let's travel back in time to Season 1...we learned that Leonard Simms (Hurley's mumbling acquaintance in the mental institution) first heard 'the numbers' from Sam Toomey, and they were both in the Navy. We witnessed a military presence on the island, during the early Widmore era, so I would not be surprised to see young Leonard and Sam in a future episode. My guess is Leonard went crazy after exposure to the electromagnetic field while building the Swan; that is where he first saw the numbers. And let's face it, if a man's filling can be pulled out of his tooth and through his head...anything is possible at that location.

Side note: Toomey's widowed wife allegedly lost her leg in a car accident. Given that we know Dr. Chang injures his arm (potentially during pending 'incident'), that Montand lost his arm to Smokey, etc., I now believe that she was possibly on the island as well. And let's not forget that our favorite statue is merely one stump of a leg...


There are two reasons I came up with for why they send deceased bodies to the Orchid station. The first is that there is cold storage beneath it, near the Frozen Donkey Wheel. I cannot explain how or why that area exists at that temperature, but it is probably connected via underground passageway to The Temple, as both contain walls of hieroglyphics.


Both Kate and Jack have major daddy issues, so their initial sympathies toward Roger are not a huge surprise. But I had to laugh when the recently shaved and sober Jack lectured Roger about drinking.

And the scene with Kate and Roger on the swing set reminded me of young Annie with Little Linus in the same exact location, when she gave him the wood carved dolls.


Are there rules about crossing paths with actual relatives and selves in previous eras? We saw Faraday meet his young mother Ellie in 1954, but not only is Miles seeing his father in 1977...he is interacting with him and also existing as a 3 month old at the same time.


It is coming, and Ben believes that he's overseeing the winning team, opposite Widmore. That is probably why he had Ilana bring the ammunition on Ajira 316. I certainly hope that Daddy Widmore somehow returns to the island for this showdown, and that it relates to 'the incident.' Because of the title of this episode and the many other Star Wars references therein, I started pondering whether Ben's or Widmore's empire will strike back...


There were two statements uttered in this episode which apply to many characters: "that douche is my dad" and "if you needed your son to know that you loved him, you should have told him when he was still alive." Miles & Pierre Chang, Ben & Roger Linus, Jack & Christian Shephard, Walt & Michael.

  • The white rabbit which Miles knew hid the apartment key.
  • The book that Dr. Chang was reading to baby Miles was about a polar bear.
  • The horses in the paintings above Mrs. Chang, off island.
I couldn't help but think about Little Miss Sunshine as Miles put the body in the trunk of the VW van.

Oh, and in their tan jumpsuits, ghost whisperer Miles and the I-see-dead-people dude Hurley comprise (mentally and physically) 1/2 of the Ghostbusters.

New Dharma logo alert: there appears to be a Dharma school or library logo, as evidenced by Hurley's journal notebook.

Yesterday was 4/15 and today's date is 4/16, all of which are 'the numbers.' :)

I have to publish this now, because my blog host site is scheduled for a maintenance outage in less than an hour - doh! And although I seem to say this after every episode, I really do have more to elaborate about and plan to post further thoughts and theories this weekend!

As a pop culture sponge and sci-fi fan, I loved tonight's episode. Kudos and shout-out to "Some Like it Hoth" co-writer Gregg Nations, whom I had the pleasure of meeting (and bowling with) a few weeks ago at Lost Weekend in LA.

By the way, I had no idea that when we saw live filming in Oahu earlier this year of episode 14 (which airs on 4/29 after a brief hiatus next week) that is was the milestone 100th episode of Lost!
And what we witnessed there is finally starting to make sense. I will make sure to highlight and compare what we saw in the post following that episode ("The Variable").

Thanks for reading, and feel free to leave comments; I will respond to all by next week!

- Jo


Brad said...

As far as Ben killing Sayid... what we know about time travel may make this irrelevant (as some theories I've read hold Ben is actually from the future or has knowledge somehow of future events), but here it goes... I don't think logistically Ben could've coordinated Nadia's murder. She was already dead by the time he showed up in the Tunisian desert. He simply didn't have time to get that message sent. By the time he knew Sayid was leaving the island, he was already on his way to the Orchid to move the island. He would've had to make an instantaneous decision and communicate to Richard/Other's in between when he gives the chopper to Sayid and Kate and shows up at the Orchid the next time we see him. Is he cold and calculating enough to do this? Sure. But I'm not sure he did. So who did? Well...

The Bram/Ilana dynamic represents an interesting angle. Most everyone seems to assume they're on Ben's side now, but what if they're not? What if they're a THIRD group, independent from Ben or Widmore? DHARMA/Hanso reconstituted? A different, yet unnamed group who has equal claim to the island that the two factions we've already seen (Ben/Widmore). If, as I think, they are related to DHARMA/Hanso (and the Black Rock etc.) then we could be set up for a major struggle. "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" How about Jughead, the ULTIMATE endgame and upper hand for any of the three groups as far as gaining island superiority.

Miles saw his mom in line behind him because she's alive on the island. Not dead yet.

Lapidus is there because he was always supposed to be there. Remember, he was supposed to be flying 815. "Course correction."

1miletogo said...

I really liked seeing the Swan being built. I'm thinking it is closer to being finished than it appears. I think that they are now covering up the location, and the final hatch door was being applied. So maybe in the next episode we will see the inside. I agree about the hostiles seemingly not knowing about the construction. A vine covered fence wouldn't mask the construction sounds. What about Smokey? I still think the incident affected Smokey, we haven't seen Hide nor smoke of it in DHARMA days...

Bram - when I saw this exchange with Miles, I was thinking that Bram was part of a DI resurgence. Bram said the following: "You'll know who you are, Miles--why it is you have a gift, and most of all, you'll know about your father." This made me think that like you said the Chang video was received by Bram.

As for the chalkboard, I deciphered the egyptian phrases over are DarkUFO's forums. I'm not really sure of the phrases. Here is the picture -

It is something like
Egyptian 1) Shadow (military standard 2) water 3) stairway 4) owl or consonant "m" 5) bread? 6) city village

Writing the word of god
1) writing 2) water 3) Egyptian god 4) walking stick or unknown 5) majority or replacement for signs perceived to dangerous to be written.

Archaic Egyptian before 2600 BC
1) country, earth, eternity repeated

I'm thinking that Mrs. Chang may have had been exposed to electromagnetic energy, as well as Miles as a baby.

Something about the orchid... I'm wondering how much of the actual orchid station is completed already. The portion that we see them building is the exterior greenhouse portion. I think that they may be delivering the bodies to the Orchid to try and do time travel experiments on them. I'm wondering if we will see Alvarez next week back working at the Swan.

I think that the others have another way off the island. Could Farady have left with Ellie and is now returning to the island to put a course of action into play?

I also thought Chang's mention of Hydra was interesting, almost as it is the DHARMA detention center. His line of "Ill ship you to the Hydra Island so you can weigh turds for their ridiculous experiments" was a great line. We haven't seen anyone in Hydra jumpsuits in DHARMAville so far. I am hoping for a glimpse of the DHARMA station and possibly Room 23 before the end of the season. It makes sense that Room 23 maybe part of the detention process.

I saw them puting the numbers on the hatch and calling it the Serial number and my heart dropped. I do hope that the numbers are more than the serial number to the Swan's hatch top.

As far as Miles seeing himself in 1977, I believe that is OK. I think the danger lies in if the two selves come into direct contact with each other. There is a school of thought in time travel that the same mass can't occupy the same space. So as long as Chang doesn't ask Miles to hold baby Miles, we should be OK - But in a side note - that would be an interesting way for Miles to get his ability - What if Adult Miles touches Baby Miles and has a near death experience and this causes Baby Miles to develop, the I hear Dead People skill? Hmmm...

If you like the LOST ghostbusters crossover take a look at this great video -

OK, this has been way too long of a post sorry about that.

the flour child said...

as always, blowing my mind with all thoughts and ideas, but definitely a joy to read after pondering some major stuff.

the scene with miles' momma was definitely reminiscent of daniel's mystery woman - in fact it took a few seconds to make sure we had not seen that scene before.

i'm sure there will be more to it, but to find out the numbers were just a part description, as read off of that clipboard - gahhh. i need MORE. i need MEANING! :)

thanks, as usual, for this thursday thought jumpstart.

Anonymous said...

"It struck me as odd that Miles said his mom appeared in line behind him in the Dharma cafeteria, because as he explained to Hurley, he speaks with the dead but does not see them. Not sure how to explain that discrepancy, but perhaps he also sees and speaks with ghosts like Hurley does."

I thought he meant her living self...not a ghost...because she's actually still alive at this point...right?

ashlie said...

Brad, that was exactly what I was thinking about Ilana and Bram. Just because they're against Widmore does not automatically make them on Ben's side. Maybe they have something to do with Eloise, who doesn't seem to have allegiance with either Ben or Widmore either. Who knows. I definitely think it's hasty to assume that they're with Ben though.

Anonymous said...

Wow! This is a pretty amazing read. Thank you.

orangejack said...

After last night, I have a new theory about the 'war' that's coming. Here's a clip from my blog post about it:

"What what I’m really suspecting now is that [Ilana and Bram] are part of a new group in play for the Island. You see, it’s always been Ben vs Charles, Jack vs Locke, etc. But what if the “shadow statue people” are the new (old) group in town? Maybe the Island Trinity had it’s people living there until the outside world got involved.

Think of it with this analogy: The “shadow statue people” are like Native Americans while Ben v Charles are like the British v US Colonies in the Revolutionary War (it’s not important which side is which). In other words, two groups of people fighting over land that both think it’s theirs because they found it and took it from the people who already lived there. Imagine the US Native Americans rising up during the Revolutionary War to fight both the US and Britains. I think that’s where we might just be going."

Would love your thoughts on it (here or at

Yvonne said...

Your posts always help me enjoy the show more. There is so much that I miss or don't remember from episodes past.

I remember when I was just simply watching a show about a plane wreck and the group just trying to survive. I enjoyed it then, but reading the blogs has opened it up to so much more and it has been a blast to keep up with.

Just one questions, why is Hurley so awesome? Loved his scenes with Miles and Chang. :)

Katie H said...

I loved watching all of the stations being built, especially when Hugo was watching the Numbers being put on the hatch door! I am not yet convinced that "the War" is going to be between Ben and Widmore but it does seem likely.

Jo, I like the Idea about the Polar Bears being trained to push the Frozen Wheel.

Just a bit of Egyptian Creation Mythology for everyone.....

From the primeval waters, they said, Ptah arose like a hill. After this, all other land emerged from the ocean. And Ptah thought all things in his heart and brought them into existence by his commanding word. In this way he created all food and provisions. Through his word he made the crafts and all other things.

Another Creation story......

Some people called the first god Atum. Other people called him Re. The first god did not have a mother nor a father. He came into being by himself. He emerged from the primeval flood Nun as a hill and stood on top of it. Then, he spat out two other gods. One was male and the other was female. They gave birth to the other gods.

Where am I going with this you may be wondering, well this hill or Island the the egyptians refer to as the birth place of the Egyptians Reminds me of Our Lost Island. Maybe this Is why the Island is so special and why they are teaching the Children of Dharmaville about Egyptian History. But who knows I have always been reminded of these creation stories ever since I first saw the Hieroglyphs on the Island.


Brad said...

Note: my post should read Ben killing Nadia. This is why you shouldn't post things in the middle of the night.

Nurby said...

I do think the voice in the video does sound like Faraday, but doesn't it seem weird that Faraday would be so mean sounding. I can't think of a time yet where I have heard Faraday sound like that. I feel like we have not seen that side of Faraday if he does have that side.

1miletogo said...

I'm not sure if anyone caught this, but while slowmowing the Miles Kidnapping scene, I saw a nice logo on a store. Now it was probably just a security logo... But, what if it was a clue on who Bram works for... I will let you decide...


Too Many Hats said...

I just watched the episode last night, so sorry to be late to the party. I always love reading your theories and hearing what others have to say.

My first thought about the "what lies in the shadow" people are they are in fact a third party. DI related I could see.

I totally thought that about the Annie/Ben and Kate/Roger.

We have had "The Constant" and next "The Variable" - looking forward to it.

Shauna said...

My impression was that the "shadow of the statue" people were from a third group as well, not working for Ben. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Capcom said...

Interesting post and comments! :-D

It is indeed totally laughable that the DI could have built the underground stations in Hostile territory without being discovered! Yeah, just put an ivy fence around it and no one will notice, haha. Oh well, suspension of disbelief needs to be cranked up high for that one.

Lost2010 at TLC suggested that Bram and Co. could be more DI babies like Miles and Charlotte who got booted off the island with their mums, who are also trying to get back to their island roots. That sounds possible to me too.

Chang's comments about the Hydra experiments might merely be a type of common intellectual snobbery wherein some scientists think that their work is the only "important" work, and everyone else's are lesser efforts. I've worked with scientists who thought that way. In Chang's case, zoological psych tests, etc., would seem vastly inferior to the quantum physics and time travel experiments that he's involved with.

Good point about Naomi, she seems to have a job kind of like Abaddon, i.e., getting people where they need to be.

I was thinking of another way of looking at the dead bodies hidden at the Orchid when the closed captions dialogue mentioned something about Jimmy Hoffa, while they were taking Mr.Fillinghead out of the van. Maybe they are burying the vicitms of accidents in the cement supports of the building, like where it's thought that Hoffa is! Or maybe even in the cement structure around the magnetic anomaly? :-o

Again, very nice thoughts everyone. :-)