Saturday, February 14, 2009

Responding to Your Comments about "This Place is Death"

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to leave comments. Second, I apologize for not responding more often!

I wanted to address your fantastic questions and theories about "This Place is Death" before moving on to the next episode...

Ben
Hillary is curious as to why Ben didn't know that Locke had to move the Island. Did he know but moved it anyway, because he wanted to leave and had no other means to since the sub was gone?

I think that Ben knew Locke had to move it himself, but like most of his other successful manipulations of the man, maneuvered himself into place to do so instead. I'm not sure if Ben wanted to get off the island or not, and judging from the fact that Ben said he'd visited Locke before his/Bentham's death, it's possible that he'd been back to the island. So there are obviously more methods of transport than the sub (including time travel).

Christian Shephard
Jackie
asked if Christian brought flight 815 to the island (just as John Locke is bringing the Oceanic 6 back). Christian was dead and in the coffin when he arrived there, and (allegedly) Locke will be as well. When Christian arrived on the island, he was alive again. The big question is...what about Locke upon his return?

My gut reaction is that Locke is alive or at least will be once he returns 'home' (the island). Of course the use of an anagram for Reincarnation (on the van in which Ben is transporting Locke: Canton-Rainier) may be a ruse to throw us off the real trail...

Jackie is also wondering if Christian choose certain people to be on that plane and end up on the island, and what his connection with the island was (if any) outside of his job as a doctor and being a father to Jack.

My response is that IF Christian had anything to do with the selection of those passengers, he wasn't alone. Widmore and Abaddon may have had a role in that process, if indeed there was one.

Along those same lines...Hillary is pondering whether the island only wants Locke and/or Jack. To her, everyone else on the plane was incidental (except possibly Claire). She thinks there is more than a ‘6 degrees of separation’ link (for Jack and Claire to be related, on the plane with their dead-ish dad Christian, then on the island). She wonders if there is a Jack/Locke connection that hasn’t been revealed yet.

Given the high number of character connections (most of them not familial), I tend to think that more than just Locke and Jack were meant/destined to be on that plane. I don't think that Locke and Jack share any relatives, but perhaps the island needs to pit one man of science vs. one man of faith (earlier versions included Widmore v. Ben).

Christian Shephard & Jacob
Nurby is considering that Christian IS Jacob, and MsDee reminded us that Christian said he can "speak for" Jacob but is not him. Then again, Christian appeared to Locke down at the Frozen Donkey Wheel with a lantern (rather than a flashlight; Jacob loathes modern technology, but it could also have been an indication of era).

I don't think that they're one and the same, but I've certainly been wrong before.

Danielle Rousseau & Jin
TheFanta inquired whether or not Rousseau had ever crossed paths with Jin on the island after the crash in 2004, and KissMyApocalypse said that they may have met when she came to the fuselage beach and could have recognized him.

Although I do not recall a specific scene or conversation between them, Jin was with Jack and almost everyone else when he brought them into a clearing with Rousseau to demonstrate their dynamite capabilities (in preparation for the Others' attempt to kidnap pregnant women at the beach camp).

Hillary asserts that if Rousseau were alive in the present day, she would remember Jin in the same way Desmond remembered seeing Faraday in the past. Good point...

Danielle Rousseau & Robert
Both Brad and JRkinsella pointed out that Rousseau had removed the firing pin from Robert's gun.

Thank you - I'd missed that while looking down to take notes (remind me to never watch Lost live again w/o a DVR)!

That being said, I still believe that the island wasn't ready for Rousseau to die...because of her unborn child Alex. Hillary doesn't remember Alex doing anything significant, but I think her role and death in the Ben/Widmore 'rule changing' game was huge and will ultimately affect the outcome of the island and the Losties.

Desmond & Eloise Hawking
LoriS and KissMyApocalypse believe that Desmond recognized Hawking in that last scene at the church.

I agree, and SHE did not seem at all surprised to see him with Ben and some of the Oceanic Six. But what will she make of her prophecy about/for him? Desmond DID marry Penny but he also pressed that button to save the world (for a time).

Faraday
Hillary asks...did Faraday tell Pierre Chang/Dr. Candle about the where the well was, which is why the Dharma Institute built the Orchid in that location? Was he pretending not to know Chang during the construction scene to assure that no one figured out they knew each other?

It is quite probably that Faraday was the one to alert Chang to the whereabouts of the well. I'm not sure when those two actually met and interacted, but it certainly sounds like Faraday is the one videotaping Chang in the Barracks video that aired last summer at Comic-Con.

Four Toed Statue
Hillary thinks that whoever was making the 4-toed statue messed up, and for whatever reason didn’t correct and finish it. And that the writers are just having fun with us over-analyzers. I theorized that the statue is somehow related to The Temple.

Honestly...Darlton have said that they originally wanted it to have 6 toes, but ABC preferred 4. And the man who created the model of the 4-toed statue which was used on the set and show said in a podcast that it was changed from 6 to 4 because it was difficult to differentiate a regular 5 toed foot to a 6 toed foot. Regardless, I believe that they will somehow weave its significance into the series before the end of next season.

Jacob
Hillary is also curious if Jacob hates technology because of the H bomb.
I'd always assumed that Jacob's existence on the island pre-dated the bomb era, and that he's from a much earlier generation that never embraced modern conveniences. Or he's an 'it' or a ghost and it's all irrelevant.

And to answer her inquiry whether or not Jacob is the island's God...I certainly hope not. It seems to easy. Hillary wants to know if the sacrifices that the Island demands are parallel to Jesus being sacrificed. For that, I will step aside and let those with a stronger religious background ponder and answer.

Locke
Hillary wants to know how Locke knows that the O6 are alive.

That crossed my mind as well. If I had to guess, he flashed forward in time during a shift and saw them arrive back on the island (via Ajira Air).

Miles
TheFanta made an interesting observation about Miles' behavior during the last two episodes. Among the many deceased people on the island that he could communicate with...was Charlotte one of them? Did he skip forward in time (either with or w/o the others in Marooned 5) and encounter her spirit?

The Oceanic Six Hillary
wants to know why Claire and Charlotte both warned not to bring Aaron and Sun (respectively) back to the island, if they’re all supposed to come back. If the Island/Jacob is far reaching enough to prevent Jack and Michael from killing themselves, to allow Jack to see his dad, for Kate to see Claire and Hurley to visit with Charlie...why would it send conflicting messages?

That is a very good point. Did anyone else receive similar warnings that we simply haven't seen yet? It seems that a certain subset of Ghosts (Christian, Ana Lucia) are working toward a common goal - to get the O6 to return. The other Ghosts (Charlie, Claire) seem to want the opposite.

My curious friend Hillary also asked...if the 06 weren’t supposed to leave, why were they able to? Why didn’t Ben know?

And my question is, why DID the island allow them to leave? Was it a test to see if their collective character had changed? Second chances? And did Ben know that they'd have to return as a group at some point?

Hillary also wondered...if Sayid is working with Ben, why tell Hurley ‘to do the opposite’? Because he knows he was taken advantage of after his wife died and is now in too deep to get out of working with Ben? He tells Ben he had to make sure Hurley was safe, but doesn’t say safe from who/what. Widmore would be the best guess.

I never considered WHO Sayid was keeping Hurley safe from. Widmore is a logical guess, and so is Abaddon. Had Abaddon visited any of the other O6 or just Hurley (because he was safely locked up in the mental institution)? Was Sayid aware of Abaddon?

Smokey
I asked how Robert knew that Smokey was a security system for The Temple, and Hillary said that he and his crew were 'compromised' when they went to save Montand.

I do not necessarily think that is the case...my interpretation was that Robert stated it more as a fact than a guess, and assessed it as such after one encounter with Smokey (whereas our somewhat clueless Losties never speculated it to be after many run-ins). I simply got the feeling that Robert knew more about the island than we were led to believe and that there was more to him than even Rousseau knew.


Hillary also thinks that Nadine may have been killed by Smokey because she was too close to The Temple. I tend to disagree only because she was disposed of in the same way as Flight 815 pilot Seth Norris...perhaps Smokey held her responsible for bringing her crew of strangers to the island and/or crashing there too. Of course neither death relates at all to how or why Smokey killed Eko.

Time Shifts
I speculated that
the pushing of the button every 108 minutes in the Swan hatch released energy which was building up below the island and powering the Frozen Donkey Wheel; that it caused the island to dislodge and result in time shifts.

Hillary pointed out that the young Widmore era would have been familiar with the time shifts...so why wouldn’t they believe them when they said they’re from the future?

I believe that young Widmore and Ellie were from/in an earlier era on the island than the Dharma workers beneath the Orchid that made fun of time travel when Faraday was there. In addition, I think that only the upper echelon of Dharma were aware of the island's many capabilities and were privy to that kind of intel.
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I really appreciate all of your feedback, and look forward to it every week. If you ever want to share a thought or theory but are too shy to post it, please email me and I will do so anonymously on your behalf.

We are heading to THE island tomorrow...much more to come very soon!

7 comments:

Hillary said...

You'd think my first word was "why?" lol Thanks for taking the time - while vacationing! - to keep the discussion going. It all has to sink in now.

Jeffro said...

Besides the fact that they had to write Eko out...didn't he want to go do something else? Maybe not, but I figured the explanation for Smokey taking him out is the fact that no matter how spiritual you might be later, you still have to atone for your sins. Because of how he was in the past, he was offed. Also, maybe the island did not want a strong religious figure able to rally people as he was shown capable of doing by starting to build the church and getting a couple people to help/follow him. Eko was my favorite character before they offed him.

Capcom said...

Wow! Great two articles, and comments from everyone! So very helpful to be able to read peoples' ideas after a show like this. :-D

225712012 said...

I would be suicidal if the four-toed statue turned out to be some kind of joke. My personal theory is that the statue is not from the past at all, but from a future (maybe post-apocalyptic) society where humanity has evolved to such an extent as to render the 'pinky' superflous.
And now I come to think of it, how much of Lost that we take to be the past is really not the past at all, but a distant future? The future's probably not going to be all flying cars and spacemen you know.

225712012 said...

Of course, I forgot to mention that there wouldn't really be any good reason for it to exist in the 'past' (the statue's past), unless the island has a hole in its bubble or something.

1miletogo said...

I think that Montand & Nadine may have been on the island before. Nadine is quickly and quietly disposed of by smokey. Montand says a line "Come on. I know which way to go" He seemed like he was on a mission, and smokey seemed that he was determined to take Montand. The camera made sure that it showed Montand's arm with his watch on.

It also goes back to the theory of the watches. I believe that the watches that Jin were delivering, Jacks watch, and now maybe even Montands watch may be means of getting on and off the island. We know that Jack was wearing his watch, and Michael was wearing his. Richard has been seen on the island without a watch on and off the island with a watch on.

Now to a theory about Jacob... I've always thought since first seeing Jacob back in season 3, that he could be Locke. I am now wondering that when Locke turns the frozen donkey wheel that Lockes soul gets trapped and is stuck on the island. We know that Locke turned the wheel sometime pre-DHARMA, but who knows how far in the past he actually is. Could it be that Locke's essence has been trapped. Locke had to turn the wheel for Jacob to come into being. This could be how Locke heard him say help me.

As for the question of why did the island let them leave. I think it goes back to the reasoning that Desmond is "special" he was on the helicopter and out of the control of the island. The main goal of the island was to get Locke to turn the wheel. I had a long drawn out theory before season 4 about chains of events and people needing to get to the island for certain things to happen. It may have been a long chain of events just to get Locke to turn the wheel...

Just ponderings :), it is one day closer to Wednesday.

kissmyapocalypse said...

Thanks for the feedback - I'll be sure to ask more questions next time instead of my usual snarky, inappropriate comment :D

You didn't miss Danielle's comment about the firing pin while taking notes - middle-aged-Rousseau said that back in the day when she captured Sayid: "Robert didn't notice I had removed the firing pin, either." Keep taking notes, and we'll keep reminding you of minutiae of seasons past :)

"Hillary wants to know how Locke knows that the O6 are alive."
Alpert told him in the premiere that they were alive and Locke had to bring him back. Hence his mission.